Ameristar & Harrah’s Casino

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

Out of curiosity Matt who was this seventh person?  is it someone known?

Also I do not want it to look like I am trying to "demand" certain judges.  By no means is that the case.  I am simply stating the most logical choices. 

Sifu Wayne

[Ron Davenport]

Well, I think non school affiliates should judge this contest. Regardless of best intentions, bias is bias. Judges should be from the outside circles of our schools, but all must be Chinese martial artist (Traditional) with 15 plus years experience. It's kinda bogus to have a teams school help judge an event like this. Anywho, I harbor no ill feelings towards anyone. I jumped in because, for the first time it sounded as though we could work together for once instead of working against each other. Regardless of a challenge, competition, festival, demo, etc we should get together and demonstrate. Time doesnt matter to us (me), if it happens, it happens and if not, it doesn't.

Matt, I realize that there can be some pride issues associated with these types of events, but if a schools going to deny the results, there going to deny it regardless of who is judging, you know.... Thats why the best solution is simply a friendly public demonstration with a few area CMA officials to oversee school spirits. You know, make sure no one get ticks off and embarasses the areas schools with unfit behavior, etc.

Oh Yeah Sifu Wayne, You know I dont get along with Sifu Adams or that snake Shang Gao, you seen the BS at the St.Louis Chinese MA tourny . Talk about Bias, good gosh...... But, if you really need them to attend, then, ok. I got a score to settle with Shang Gao anyway, tell him to bring his team as well .

Sifu Cabais, I look forward to working with you. Sounds like you guys are really doing well. Good to hear from you Matt, Dont think I've met you yet.

 

See Ya.

Sifu Ron

 

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

I dont know anything about Shang Gao other than what you've told me.  He's too new to the area anyway.  I think all judges should have a set criteria to judge from anyway and be able to back it up, IE: Footwork, Head movement, tail sequence and strength, drumming (traditional Lion Drumming), custom observance, etc.  

 

Sifu Wayne 

[Ron Davenport]

I wanted to explain my comments about Sifu Larry and Shang Gao and the bias at the St.Louis Tourny. This was merely pointed out because they were judging their own students and pointing them higher than others and Larry had his senior student compete at his own tourny, but failed to make sure that the judging of his student was fairly conducted. So, the bias I was talking about was directed towards members of the same school judging one another or allowing their close friends to pass judgement.

Sifu Ron.

[Jesse Phillips]

I don't know if everyone would be open to this, but I believe this is a great opportunity to invite all the nearby lion dance teams.  I think a Lion Dance Tourny would give the St. Louis schools a great opportunity to work together and put on a great event.  If all groups agree to this, I think we should invite any and all of the other teams within a days drive or so.

The Kansas City Lion Dance Team and some of the University's may also have teams within there culture awareness clubs for example.

Really any team anyone can think of.

What do you guys think?

[Ron Davenport]

I'm game, it really doesn't matter to me.....  I have friends in kansas City who has an awsome lion dance team ( Sifu Randy Li ). I can also contact Sifu Ray Hildreth and his team in Tulsa, a good friend of mine as well. I can't speak for Sifu Wayne though, I think he wants to do this event A.S.A.P..  We'll wait for his reply to this post to see if he wants to put this off until a more proposed format.

Sifu Cabais, is there anything you would like to add to the last posts? I think that inviting other schools would be fun. We could ask for a small entrance fee that would go towards the costs of throwing such an event. Who knows, could turn out to be a yearly thing.

See Ya!

Sifu Ron.

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

Hey Sifu Ron you know me!  I'm cool with that.  I've been trying to get something like this going for a while!  Yeah Sifu Li and Sifu Hildreth both have good teams.  I just spoke with Sifu Hildreth last week actually.  (About something else, not this).

Sounds like a plan.   

[Ron Davenport]

Well, seems this is a dead subject. Oh well, sounded fun. Good luck with the lion dance. We have too many other things to prepare for other than waiting for a date / time. If there should be a time set here in the now future, we will still have time to schedule it into our school event list. Anywho, I will keep an eye on the forum just in case this transpires within a reasonable time.

Respectfully.

Sifu Ron.

[SiGung Vincent A. Cabais]

I apologize that this post is so late.  I’ve been extremely sick this past week and have not had the opportunity to read all of the replies yet.  There are a lot.

Having other groups involved would be great! I am all for having as many groups participate in a Lion Dance competition as possible.  An annual event of this kind could get the Chinese Martial Arts some good publicity.  I too have wanted to see an event of this kind for some time.  I believe that we should begin planning the event ASAP.

However, prior to a statewide lion dance tournament I would like to address Sifu Skiver (Judge)'s challenge, and like him, I would like that to happen sooner rather than later.   While there are no hard feelings, I take any challenge, even a friendly one, seriously. Sifu Skiver (Judge) issued a challenge to me on my school's forum; I feel that we need to settle that challenge between the two of us.  Here is what I would like to propose: this Saturday we are holding our annual Chinese New Year celebration and In-School tournament which includes a Lion Dance division.  Sifu Skiver (Judge), we would like to invite your school to come and compete this Saturday in the Lion Dance division our In-School Tournament. While we have always kept our In-school tournament in-school, we welcome your team to participate.

I don't feel that this is too short of notice since

I will gladly put my team up against yours whenever you wish. 

The competition between our teams would have to be judged by impartial judges, so I suggest that we contact the Sifus you mention in your earlier post.  As you point out, the Sifus in the area would not hold any bias or not judge with truth and honor.  Also, this part of the tournament would be open to the public for any spectator that would like to see it.

If you want "an honest test of honest skill, nothing more, nothing less." Then the location should not be an issue.   If you are worried about how you would be treated, you have my word that you, your team, school and guests would be shown the utmost respect and hospitality.   And as you say, if you relax and flow with this, it might just be fun too.  I think this would send a message that our schools can come together in friendly competition and lay the ground work for future collaborations.

[Jesse Phillips]

I'm glad to see all of you would want to do a "lion fest".  Maybe sometime in the next week or so everybody could try and arrange a time to get together and start laying the ground work.  nudge nudge

I hope to see some great lion dancing.

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

Lets make some corrections first off.  Yes I will gladly put my team up against yours.  I welcome the oppurtunity.  BUT I did not challenge you.  I responded to what was obviously a challenge issued by you to any other Lion Dance team out there.

Yes you stated it on YOUR forum.  But that still does not change the nature of the statement that was made.  All I did was respond.  We have been posting on this subject for over a week without reply from you.  I will contact the other Sifus in the area to see if they can make it.  Likewise I will see if my team members are available this Saturday.  If not I will post the dates that are available according to the judges schedules but it will not be later than the coming month.  March 4th was a date that had been mentioned for consideration among the judges.

I will contact the necessary people tomorrow.  Hopefully we can do this this Saturday.  What time would this be?

 

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

Further, I feel I must state this so that it is clear.  My reply may have been spirited but it was not angry or derogatory. 

"Unless there is another team out there that can top our skill,"

Thats what I was responding to.  And I stand by my reply.  We most definately will pit our team against yours.  You may not feel that basically one days notice (as it is nearly 10pm while I write this) is too short a notice.  But while I am ready and willing I cannot say until tomorrow wether or not the members of my team are at such short notice.  We will just have to see. 

Sifu Skiver  (You can stop using Judge, I have returned to my birth name.  Nice to see you keep up with my website though)

[Gene Dobbs Bradford]

Sifu Skiver,

Sifu Cabais is unable to get to a computer, but he asked me to let you know that our In-School Tournament will begin at 11am with our opening ceremonies followed by lunch and then some demonstrations.  The competitions would begin at 2pm.  We welcome you to come for the opening ceremonies as well.

Respectfully,  Gene

[Sifu Wayne Skiver]

Thank you Gene.  And send my acknowledgement to Sifu Cabais as well.  I am in the process of contacting my team to see if they are able to get off work and attend.  
  Rest assured if I cannot assemble my team on this short notice we will still find a time for all of us as soon as possible.  Pass on to your Sifu that I still think he and I should meet in person to discuss this properly.  I'll post as soon as I know.

Sifu Skiver

[SiGung Vincent A. Cabais]

Sifu Skiver,

Regardless if you can assemble your team in time, it would be nice if you, your family and anyone else within your circle could attend.  I agree that we should meet to discuss.  I was just hoping that we could do it tomorrow.